At the risk of being unpopular, if i was a journalist, i wouldn't like PR people very much either!
I think by what Mitchell and Gem B have highlighted is that journo's i think feel a lack of control when they know they've just got to be the mouth piece of our clients latest launch, or that people are reading about our brand online rather than through their opinion laden ideas.
But i also think there's another dimension of why they 'hate' us... Journalists train with the intention of doing some investigative work, they want to make a difference with what they are writing about (hmm?) and so all our work communicating the 'right' message gets in the way of what they deems as moral.
Also, Media Relations is like hounding if you don't do it right, i was working on GR last year, i did a piece about gettting into PR for the media section. I had 3 phone calls from one agency who wanted me to drop in 3 client names and what they were doing & send them a cutting... i wasn't even writing about the company but the story of an ex-cardiff student who got into PR! and it was about 500 words long, that would have made the piece look like paid for editorial, not a student newspaper.It was a question of 'why are you pushing me to do this promo, i could drop this story because you are so so annoying me with these phone calls and demands'.
Aside from the continually terrible grammar and spelling littered throughout this thread the content is truly awful.
"I have to say after the past two weeks of writing invitations, producing press kits, PowerPoint presentations and writing speeches, all the journalists have to do is turn up ask a few questions and write one article."
Writing invitations? Tough stuff. And writing one article? What is negative about that? Writing an article which will be read by thousands, if not millions of people, is slightly more worthwhile that preparing press kits...
At lastly stop taking yourselves so seriously. You're only student PR people - not working for the government. If you couldn't handle a few ill timed mobile phones and some slightly moronic questions than how on earth will you cope with the Paxman-esque journalists you will undoubtedly encounter?
No-one wants to hear the boring press release jargon you talk.
And if an article about flatulence isn't your cup of tea don't answer questions about it. We ask the questions, you give us the moronic answers, we report them. That's the cycle.
Mitchell said: "Possibly because we may like to arrange the truth (notice I said TRUTH)to suit the needs of our clients, as opposed to giving a neutral standpoint like those good ol' honest journos do (notice the sarcasm)."
You mean you tell people what you're told to tell them irrespective of whether it's true or not.
Louise Rutter said: "I have to say after the past two weeks of writing invitations, producing press kits, powerpoint presentations and writing speeches, all the journalists have to do is turn up ask a few questions and write one article."
And I have to say that after reading the report and then turn up and listening to it regurgitated, badly, by people who clearly don't understand it, and then having our legitimate questions dodged, I refuse to believe that you spent two weeks on preparation. And I didn't get one of your invitations.
Gemma Bradley said: "Perhaps they are jealous because their jobs may well be in jeopardy with the rise of online news, compared to the field of PR which is growing steadily each year!!"
You are quite, quite mad.
Alice Brett said: "what a load of NUMPTYS."
What an enlightening remark!
Sandie said: "They were childish and pathetic, and if they'd really been at Downing Street they would have been arrested for their actions."
I think you need a better grasp of the law, flower.
Lucy said: "The articles they wrote were neither investigative nor informative..."
Well when you evade the legitimate questions what do you expect?
We are soon-to-be journalists and as such take pride in our work and appearing to have a degree of intelligence. If PR people are happy to write slack work on their course blog site which any potential employer could find within a few mintues then it only furthers our view of you as people to treat with a certain level of contempt.
Mitchell responds to Anonymous's comment with "Do you go through and correct all bloggers grammar and give them a mark all across the internet? Get a life!"
What we've got there is a type of logical fallacy know as a "straw man". Look it up.
Just want to point out one thing. You seem to have taken our behaviour in your press conference as a sign that we couldn't be bothered to listen to you. As a matter of fact, we were told to heckle and behave badly in order to give you guys practice dealing with audiences who don't care what you have to say. Yeah, some people may have gone a bit overboard, but the idea is that to make you aware that distractions will happen in press conferences, and that you have to be guarded about making slip-ups, as they will quickly be picked up and exaggerated by the press. If you know that will happen, you'll be better prepared for it and better able to deal with it, and hopefully will learn not to take it personally.
That our little litter of PR piglets are ever so miffed at what they perceive to be the infantile antics of their fellow trainees is hardly a reflection on the professionalism of journalists per se.
In fact, the raft of puerile and ill-informed comments above only serve to underline the distinctions between the two camps.
But we're glad to see that you hold your unwashed daily gorging on the diseased teats of the media machine in such high regard.
We simply prefer to pasteurise the milk first.
Translation:
Stop wantonly suckling at the teat and do some digging - we were instructed by our tutors to play up/rock the boat/put your noses out of joint.
Relax. If you can't roll with the punches now, you may find yourself slightly more than miffed when June rolls around.
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GUYS! Chiiiiiiill out man! Yes we went in with orders to disrupt and perhaps we went too far. BUT, I think the PR girls in my conference handled it really well considering how awful all the journos were. Perhaps us Journo boys should take 'em for a drink?
Why don't we all get together for a smoke and a pancake.
"We were told to roleplay as if the date was the release of the Stern report (i.e. end of October) so in our pretend world the government hadn't already said that."
Yet in your pretend world, some groups still used an article I'd written on it a few weeks before as research.
I'm glad it's all calmed down! just thought I'd add that today I spoke to the most lovely PR guy at Amazon.co.uk and he was most helpful, perhaps because he'd done a degree in journalism so understood where I was coming from. See, there's no need to fight, we help each other out!
Mitchell - My point, clearly, was you can't claim to have rigorously stuck to the "pretend" scenario when that obviously wasn't the case - you'd read my article on a report which you then, in the role play, presented as brand new and expected us not to have read.
Gemma - "Fourth: I'm 'mad' because I said Pr jobs were on the increase and journo jobs on the decline... Think you will find the word is 'statistics', not 'mad'."
Online's having very little effect on the actual number of journalists employed in total. They're just switching medium.
"Finally: Trying to win your argument with attacks on Gordon Brown and his 'fair tax'... yes, please, hit us wear it hurts... sure we all feel very attached to Brown and his policies... think you'll find it was 'role play'."
Firstly, I don't recall mentioning "fair tax". Secondly, yes, it was, as you say, 'role play'. Hence my question (not 'attack') about taxation. I had no intention of "hitting you where it hurts". In any case, it contributed to getting you sufficiently flustered to fail to dodge my colleague's "fart tax" question, which from our point of view, made quite a good story.
Thirdly, you pick on my grammar after mis-spelling "appalling" and writing "wear" instead of "where". I feel a quote coming to mind. Something about glass houses and throwing stones...
To clarify my previous comment about online journalism:
Numbers of jobs are declining after a period of increase, when online divisions were added to existing newsrooms, and are now converging and so there are fewer jobs. It seems fairly obvious that the decline will level out once all the newsrooms are converged. (Except on the Express, given that Richard Desmond appears to believe the internet exists solely for pornography.)
By contrast, magazines, on the whole, are booming.
Gillian, if you feel you need to put your point across three times to create an impact, perhaps you should instead work on your professional writing skills.
You're clearly not such a stickler for your own editing as you are for Louise's!!!
Just because we didn't find your conference the most important thing in the world and used it as a chance to fluster you, to provoke you, to throw you, you feel the world owes you an apology. The multi-post by my newspaper friend is clearly not delibrate.
I think making out the course is teaching us how to make paper aeroplanes is a rather silly point. If you can't make a paper aeroplane by the age of eight then you probably haven't got much hope...
Big Razzy Bollocks, says I. They couldn't effectively deal with a question about farts, and "refused to rule out anything" when pressed if they would tax them. I got assigned to ask an off-kilter question, which I did, and the response was hilarious.
I say that despite the fact that Gemma Bradley has now twice invented arguments (of mine) to refute, choosing to spuriously claim that I've written things here that I simply haven't, demonstrating that she's either too lazy to read the posts properly, so inconquerably stupid that she doesn't understand what I have written, or just plain disingenuous.
I'm not going to assume that that's indicative of the rest of you, however. As I said on my blog shortly after the press conference exercise, I was actually quite impressed with the group we saw. (And I know and like a few of you personally.)
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76 Comments:
At the risk of being unpopular, if i was a journalist, i wouldn't like PR people very much either!
I think by what Mitchell and Gem B have highlighted is that journo's i think feel a lack of control when they know they've just got to be the mouth piece of our clients latest launch, or that people are reading about our brand online rather than through their opinion laden ideas.
But i also think there's another dimension of why they 'hate' us... Journalists train with the intention of doing some investigative work, they want to make a difference with what they are writing about (hmm?) and so all our work communicating the 'right' message gets in the way of what they deems as moral.
Also, Media Relations is like hounding if you don't do it right, i was working on GR last year, i did a piece about gettting into PR for the media section. I had 3 phone calls from one agency who wanted me to drop in 3 client names and what they were doing & send them a cutting... i wasn't even writing about the company but the story of an ex-cardiff student who got into PR! and it was about 500 words long, that would have made the piece look like paid for editorial, not a student newspaper.It was a question of 'why are you pushing me to do this promo, i could drop this story because you are so so annoying me with these phone calls and demands'.
H x
Aside from the continually terrible grammar and spelling littered throughout this thread the content is truly awful.
"I have to say after the past two weeks of writing invitations, producing press kits, PowerPoint presentations and writing speeches, all the journalists have to do is turn up ask a few questions and write one article."
Writing invitations? Tough stuff. And writing one article? What is negative about that? Writing an article which will be read by thousands, if not millions of people, is slightly more worthwhile that preparing press kits...
At lastly stop taking yourselves so seriously. You're only student PR people - not working for the government. If you couldn't handle a few ill timed mobile phones and some slightly moronic questions than how on earth will you cope with the Paxman-esque journalists you will undoubtedly encounter?
No-one wants to hear the boring press release jargon you talk.
And if an article about flatulence isn't your cup of tea don't answer questions about it. We ask the questions, you give us the moronic answers, we report them. That's the cycle.
Don't worry, broadcast journalists are far too busy finding newspaper journos hilarious to care about PRs.
Mitchell said: "Possibly because we may like to arrange the truth (notice I said TRUTH)to suit the needs of our clients, as opposed to giving a neutral standpoint like those good ol' honest journos do (notice the sarcasm)."
You mean you tell people what you're told to tell them irrespective of whether it's true or not.
Louise Rutter said: "I have to say after the past two weeks of writing invitations, producing press kits, powerpoint presentations and writing speeches, all the journalists have to do is turn up ask a few questions and write one article."
And I have to say that after reading the report and then turn up and listening to it regurgitated, badly, by people who clearly don't understand it, and then having our legitimate questions dodged, I refuse to believe that you spent two weeks on preparation. And I didn't get one of your invitations.
Gemma Bradley said: "Perhaps they are jealous because their jobs may well be in jeopardy with the rise of online news, compared to the field of PR which is growing steadily each year!!"
You are quite, quite mad.
Alice Brett said: "what a load of NUMPTYS."
What an enlightening remark!
Sandie said: "They were childish and pathetic, and if they'd really been at Downing Street they would have been arrested for their actions."
I think you need a better grasp of the law, flower.
Lucy said: "The articles they wrote were neither investigative nor informative..."
Well when you evade the legitimate questions what do you expect?
Bloggers' grammar.
We are soon-to-be journalists and as such take pride in our work and appearing to have a degree of intelligence. If PR people are happy to write slack work on their course blog site which any potential employer could find within a few mintues then it only furthers our view of you as people to treat with a certain level of contempt.
Mitchell responds to Anonymous's comment with "Do you go through and correct all bloggers grammar and give them a mark all across the internet? Get a life!"
What we've got there is a type of logical fallacy know as a "straw man". Look it up.
"I like sport"
Just want to point out one thing. You seem to have taken our behaviour in your press conference as a sign that we couldn't be bothered to listen to you. As a matter of fact, we were told to heckle and behave badly in order to give you guys practice dealing with audiences who don't care what you have to say. Yeah, some people may have gone a bit overboard, but the idea is that to make you aware that distractions will happen in press conferences, and that you have to be guarded about making slip-ups, as they will quickly be picked up and exaggerated by the press. If you know that will happen, you'll be better prepared for it and better able to deal with it, and hopefully will learn not to take it personally.
I agree - a good point well made.
"...that you have to be guarded about making slip-ups, as they will quickly be picked up and exaggerated by the press."
They certainly will, as one of the Gordon Browns will testify.
Fart tax? Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
I agree. Personally it wasn't fun for me to go into your press conference and act up and generally be rude, but we were told we had to do that.
It was not to make a mockery of your hard work, but to replicate that in the real world you will be put in uncomfortable situations.
Plus, think of it this way - that was probably the worst press conference some of you will ever have. It can only get better after that.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
That was me. And i'm all for PR love
wow all heating up. love it.
Me too ;-)
That our little litter of PR piglets are ever so miffed at what they perceive to be the infantile antics of their fellow trainees is hardly a reflection on the professionalism of journalists per se.
In fact, the raft of puerile and ill-informed comments above only serve to underline the distinctions between the two camps.
But we're glad to see that you hold your unwashed daily gorging on the diseased teats of the media machine in such high regard.
We simply prefer to pasteurise the milk first.
Translation:
Stop wantonly suckling at the teat and do some digging - we were instructed by our tutors to play up/rock the boat/put your noses out of joint.
Relax. If you can't roll with the punches now, you may find yourself slightly more than miffed when June rolls around.
We're all friends here, aren't we?...
I've never seen you looking so lovely as you did tonight
I've never seen you shine so bright
I've never seen so many men ask you if you wanted to dance
They're looking for a little romance, given half a chance
I have never seen that dress you're wearing
Or the highlights in your head that catch your eyes I have been blind
The lady in red is dancing with me cheek to cheek
There's nobody here, it's just you and me, It's where I wanna be
But I hardly know this beauty by my side
I'll never for get, the way you look tonight
I've never seen you looking so gorgeous as you did tonight
I've never seen you shine so bright you were amazing
I've never seen so many people want to be there by your side
And when you turned to me and smiled, It took my breath away
I have never had such a feeling
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The way you look tonight
I never will forget, the way you look tonight
The lady in red
The lady in red
The lady in red
My lady in red (I love you.)
That should calm things down.
I thought everyone was a Chris De Burgh fan?
GUYS! Chiiiiiiill out man!
Yes we went in with orders to disrupt and perhaps we went too far. BUT, I think the PR girls in my conference handled it really well considering how awful all the journos were. Perhaps us Journo boys should take 'em for a drink?
Why don't we all get together for a smoke and a pancake.
I was merely being facetious, of course.
I like your sentiments Will.
"It's only words..."
By the way, "facetious" means playful, i.e. no offence was intended...
I just thought I'd re-balance the rather childish journo-slating with some equally flagrant PR-baiting.
And I wove some piggy semantics into it to entertain everyone.
Thankyoupleashe.
Facetious is the only word in the english language to feature all the vowels in the correct order...fact.
"We were told to roleplay as if the date was the release of the Stern report (i.e. end of October) so in our pretend world the government hadn't already said that."
Yet in your pretend world, some groups still used an article I'd written on it a few weeks before as research.
I'm glad it's all calmed down! just thought I'd add that today I spoke to the most lovely PR guy at Amazon.co.uk and he was most helpful, perhaps because he'd done a degree in journalism so understood where I was coming from. See, there's no need to fight, we help each other out!
Mitchell - My point, clearly, was you can't claim to have rigorously stuck to the "pretend" scenario when that obviously wasn't the case - you'd read my article on a report which you then, in the role play, presented as brand new and expected us not to have read.
Gemma - "Fourth: I'm 'mad' because I said Pr jobs were on the increase and journo jobs on the decline... Think you will find the word is 'statistics', not 'mad'."
Online's having very little effect on the actual number of journalists employed in total. They're just switching medium.
"Finally: Trying to win your argument with attacks on Gordon Brown and his 'fair tax'... yes, please, hit us wear it hurts... sure we all feel very attached to Brown and his policies... think you'll find it was 'role play'."
Firstly, I don't recall mentioning "fair tax". Secondly, yes, it was, as you say, 'role play'. Hence my question (not 'attack') about taxation. I had no intention of "hitting you where it hurts". In any case, it contributed to getting you sufficiently flustered to fail to dodge my colleague's "fart tax" question, which from our point of view, made quite a good story.
Thirdly, you pick on my grammar after mis-spelling "appalling" and writing "wear" instead of "where". I feel a quote coming to mind. Something about glass houses and throwing stones...
Or we could all have a Battle Royale-style face-off at the Christmas Ball...
I don't know where the idea that all journalists hate PR people comes from anyway. It's just another part of the job.
A nice PR gave me a Pavement CD for no reason today, so I'm easily swayed.
To clarify my previous comment about online journalism:
Numbers of jobs are declining after a period of increase, when online divisions were added to existing newsrooms, and are now converging and so there are fewer jobs. It seems fairly obvious that the decline will level out once all the newsrooms are converged. (Except on the Express, given that Richard Desmond appears to believe the internet exists solely for pornography.)
By contrast, magazines, on the whole, are booming.
group hug everyone
"and are we going to have a debate on yours?"
Most of our blogs are just about the online module content, but as far as I'm concerned, comment away, complimentary or critical.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
"i think that the lecturer must have meant to intellectually intimidate us, rather than the ways in which you did."
You think wrong.
"Chris, I in the contrary, never bragged about my own spelling and grammar, so think the hypocritical role still remains soley with you."
Nor did I. What are you talking about?
Gillian, if you feel you need to put your point across three times to create an impact, perhaps you should instead work on your professional writing skills.
You're clearly not such a stickler for your own editing as you are for Louise's!!!
No, £5391.
but they're very good paper aeroplanes.
Petty petty PR people.
Just because we didn't find your conference the most important thing in the world and used it as a chance to fluster you, to provoke you, to throw you, you feel the world owes you an apology. The multi-post by my newspaper friend is clearly not delibrate.
I think making out the course is teaching us how to make paper aeroplanes is a rather silly point. If you can't make a paper aeroplane by the age of eight then you probably haven't got much hope...
Big Razzy Bollocks, says I. They couldn't effectively deal with a question about farts, and "refused to rule out anything" when pressed if they would tax them. I got assigned to ask an off-kilter question, which I did, and the response was hilarious.
"You got served," I believe the old adage goes.
" So - do we have a truce folks?"
If you like.
I say that despite the fact that Gemma Bradley has now twice invented arguments (of mine) to refute, choosing to spuriously claim that I've written things here that I simply haven't, demonstrating that she's either too lazy to read the posts properly, so inconquerably stupid that she doesn't understand what I have written, or just plain disingenuous.
I'm not going to assume that that's indicative of the rest of you, however. As I said on my blog shortly after the press conference exercise, I was actually quite impressed with the group we saw. (And I know and like a few of you personally.)
Them's my final words on this thread.
I'm Kortny,
from Taiwan,
and I'm 14 y.o
Hi, Girl and Boy
I've studied English sinse this Autumn .
It's very difficult for Me! Really hard!
I would like like to meet peple and practisice My English with them.
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Welcome Kortney
As you will see, you have entered a very active discussion between university students of journalism and public relations.
Please feel free to join in if it helps you practise your English
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
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